Gorgias (dialogue) facts for kids

The Gorgias is an ancient Greek book written by Plato around 380 BC. It's a Socratic dialogue, which means it's written like a conversation. In this book, Socrates talks with a group of sophists. Sophists were teachers who taught people how to speak well and persuade others.

The main goal of the conversation is to figure out what rhetoric really is. Rhetoric is the art of speaking or writing effectively to persuade people. In ancient Athens, being good at public speaking was very important for politics and law. Teachers like Gorgias came to Athens because it was famous for its smart thinkers. Socrates, however, believed he was one of the few people who practiced true politics.

Who are the characters?

• Socrates: The main speaker, a famous philosopher.
• Gorgias: A well-known sophist and teacher of rhetoric.
• Polus: A student and friend of Gorgias.
• Callicles: A wealthy Athenian who hosts the gathering.
• Chaerephon: A friend of Socrates.

What are the main ideas?

What is rhetoric?

Socrates starts by asking Gorgias to define rhetoric. He wants to know what Gorgias's skill truly is. Gorgias says rhetoric is about using words to persuade people.

Socrates believes that rhetoric, in practice, is often just flattery. He thinks speakers make people feel good by agreeing with them. He questions if rhetoric is always used for good purposes.

Is rhetoric an art or a knack?

Socrates and Polus discuss if rhetoric is a real art (or "craft"). Polus thinks it is, but Socrates disagrees. Socrates says rhetoric is not a true art.

He calls it a "knack" instead. A knack is a skill you have without really understanding why it works. Socrates says rhetoric is just a knack for making people feel pleased. It doesn't truly care about what is best or right. He believes it can't explain why it works, unlike a real art.

Is rhetoric moral?

Socrates also talks with Gorgias about whether rhetoric is fair or just. Gorgias first says rhetoric is about justice. But then he admits speakers might use it unfairly. Socrates finds this confusing.

Socrates thinks rhetoric by itself isn't a moral thing. He criticizes Gorgias for teaching people to speak well without teaching them what is right. Socrates believes people need philosophy to learn what is truly good. He says rhetoric can't be good without philosophy guiding it.

Finding the truth

Socrates always says his way of asking questions helps find the truth. He tells Callicles that Callicles' honesty helps show the truth about speaking. Socrates believes truth can be found by talking with others. People can share their ideas to reach a conclusion about what is true.

However, Socrates also says that truth isn't always what most people believe. He explains that public opinion can be wrong. He cares more about finding the real truth than about what many people might say.

A quick summary

Starting the conversation

The book begins after Gorgias has given a speech. Callicles invites Socrates to talk with Gorgias privately. Socrates asks Gorgias to answer his questions in a short way. Gorgias agrees and says he can be brief.

Comparing fights: physical vs. mental

Gorgias admits that speakers can persuade people even if they don't teach them right from wrong. He says a teacher isn't responsible if a student uses their skills for bad things. He uses an example: if a wrestling student hurts someone, you wouldn't blame the wrestling teacher. He says rhetoric teachers are the same; they hope students use their power wisely.

Socrates says he is happy to be proven wrong if he is mistaken. He thinks it's better to learn the truth than to win an argument. Gorgias, who is a master of persuasion, agrees. The others present want to hear more of this "intellectual combat."

The debate about speaking

Socrates gets Gorgias to agree that a speaker can be more convincing to people who don't know much than to experts. Gorgias sees this as a benefit of his job. He says a speaker can seem smarter than specialists without actually learning much. Socrates calls rhetoric a type of flattery. He compares it to baking sweets or putting on makeup. He says these things make things look good on the surface but aren't truly good for you. He suggests rhetoric is like this for politics.

The unhappy powerful person

Socrates then says that powerful speakers and rulers have the least real power. He means that when they do bad things, they think it's good for them, but they are actually unhappy. Socrates believes that a bad person is sad, and the saddest person is a bad one who doesn't get punished. Polus laughs at Socrates for this idea.

Socrates argues that it is much worse to do something wrong than to have something wrong done to you. He says that wrongdoing is like a sickness of the soul. Just as medicine cures the body, justice cures the soul. He believes that fair punishments help people become more just. Doing wrong is bad, but doing wrong and getting away with it is the worst. So, if someone does something wrong, they should want to be judged and punished to heal their soul. Socrates even says a speaker should accuse themselves first if they do wrong.

Polus and Callicles are surprised by Socrates' ideas.

Callicles criticizes philosophy

Callicles says that if Socrates is right, then people are living their lives all wrong. He argues that suffering wrong is worse than doing it. He also says that doing wrong is only seen as bad because of human rules, not because it's naturally wrong. Callicles tells Socrates that spending too much time on philosophy is a waste for older men. He warns Socrates that he would be helpless if someone took him to court. Socrates is not upset and says Callicles' honesty is helpful.

Callicles believes that in nature, the strong rule over the weak. He says a truly strong person has many desires and can fulfill them. He thinks only weak people praise being self-controlled and fair. Socrates disagrees. He says that both nature and human laws show that doing wrong is worse than suffering it. He believes that fairness is about equality. Socrates says that a person who always wants more is like a leaky jar, never satisfied and always unhappy. He repeats that an uncontrolled person is unhappy and needs justice.

Socrates talks to himself

Callicles gets frustrated and tells Socrates to just talk to himself. Socrates agrees, asking everyone to listen and correct him if he says something false. He then speaks alone, repeating that rhetoric is best used to accuse oneself if one has done wrong. He says a person who does wrong is unhappy, but a person who does wrong and avoids punishment is even worse off.

Philosophy is a tough medicine

Socrates explains that he aims for what is best, not just what is pleasant. He believes he is the only one who truly understands politics. He says he tells people to take the "bitter medicine" that is good for them. He thinks most politicians just flatter people with "sweet treats." Socrates compares his own future trial to a doctor being judged by children, with a cook as the accuser. He knows he might be sentenced to death, but he says the only thing that matters is keeping his own soul pure.

See also

In Spanish: Gorgias (diálogo) para niños